new car comparison of the 2012 econo boxes. 2 dr, better than 35 mpg freeway, costs less than 22 thou, and having a stick shift and XM stereo with a subwwoofer would be great
Honda Civic, 18,6 thou, gets 39mpg with a automatic. 2dr, 15" wheels 195-65R15's with hubcaps , 6 airbags, great looks. 65 % US parts, 20% Japanese, 3-36 warranty. Auto tensioning seatbelts. No maintenance package. Assembled in Alliston, Ontario Canada
But you can't get the stick shift in the upscale models. You'd have to pay 1800 for the upscale model with rims, bluetooth, and sunroof. But this model (LX?) has no factory subwoofer, No XM, No rims. Not in the 18,600 dollar model on the dealership lot, and though it's likely the best looking, it's the least well equipped.
Fiat, 18,5 thou, 38mpg, 2drs, 7 airbags,5 speed stick, new to the US after decades not in the US market, 3 models with 2 optional packages... the Gucci http://www.coolpicturegallery.us/2011/08/fiat-500-by-gucci-goes-topless-priced.html and the Arbarth.
The engine isn't resting on the engine mounts... it's under them. If a front end collision happens, the engine goes under the passenger compartment, instead of into it. That is damn good engineering design.
It has a download feature, that you can get info from the car computer, and look at it on your computer... even plan how to reroute for better gas mileage.
Above... Sport model with foglights and sunroof, below... the lounge or pop... I don't know which, but it's a cabrio convertible, with the other rims
Interior has the dash panel in the same color as the exterior.. and that is a very cool thing. You don't notice that your car interior is drab until you see a dash with paint on it like the good old days
No center console for storage... but 2 cupholders up front in good reach, and two for beack seater types if you ever have any. I don't.
the doorlocks are integral to the door handles, when you select drive and get up to 8mph, they lock automatically
The front overhang above, the rear below.
Rims nice, Best stereo with a Bose and subwoofer, XM, 4-50 warranty, and 3-36 bumper to bumper warranty.
Fiat has a Studio, not a dealership. They aren't dealing, they are displaying for sale. I like that. Suspension in two packages, sport and normal. I test drove the sport, and you'd have a ball at the track, but not in the daily commute on lousy California freeways.
Tires are Continentals on the Sport model 195 45 16s.. and Firestone Firehawk 185 55 15s
I test drove the ordinary, and it's comfortible.
Side mirrors have a convex - normal split, and the convex is necessary as well as safe, because you can't look over your shoulder to see what is in the lane you're trying to merge into. 3 year, 36 thou free maintenance, and that means clutch and brakes in addition to oil changes. Wow. Best maintenance deal going so far. Fiat even has a ownership club. That is cool.
Assembled in Toluca Mexico, 59% Mexican parts... and they are looking to make a plant in Illinois.
Fiat has been making cars since 1895, and are standing behind the car to a unheard of extant, if it becomes inoperable and you are more than a 100 miles from home, you get a 1000 dollar reimbursement for lodging, meals, adn car rental expenses if the problem is covered by the warranty in the first 4 years (mileage not relevant) they call it "Trip Interruption Coverage"
Fiat was reviewed by Motortrend, here is it http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1101_2012_fiat_500/viewall.html
Hyundai Velaster 18,3 thou, 40mpg, rims nice, tires 215-45 17, 3 dr hatch, no 2 door. Ouch. 6 spd stick, optional subwoofer, great cupholders, armrests, comfortable seats, and deep center storage, cool door handles, 6 airbags, LoJack and a demobilization security system, best warranty at 10 year 100thou and 5 yr 60k bumper to bumper. Best radio display, XM, touchscreen, bass boost makes up for the lack of subwoofer, nice transmission shifting and clutch. Made in Korea
Front looks fine
Little busy around the bumper,
Great door handles above... innovative. Solid too.
Center exhaust... good looking.
Smart, 16-19k. 40mpg, only 70 horsepower, hate the transmission shifting... even the cool paddle shifter couldn't change my mind about the shift... feels like someone hits the brakes lightly every time it shifts. EVERYTIME! You do the head and upper body bob. Not fun. Ouch. Optional subwoofer and XM, but you doens't sound right with the factory setting of front to rear balance. It's too much front. You can't adjust that, Ouch. 8 airbags, 4 yr 50 thou warranty, no stick shift, just horrible automated 5 spd. Yuck. Nice rims, 2 dr that ought to have been a 2 seater. No way the back seats are useful, and I don't want a 4 seater. No kids, no passengers, just get me to work and back comfortably is all I want. Part of the Mercedes Benz network/dealership, it has the nicest studio, and the most incredible drive it in for service you'll ever experience. Stunning. Too bad I hate the transmission.
Love the tires being this close to the corners of the car, you'll never scrape going into or out of the parking lots off the streets... that is very annoying that there is so much overhang in so many cars. Not the smart... I bet curbs or offroad would be a snap too.
Above, front tires, below - back tires
Mini coupe, 31 thou, only gets 35 mpg, stick, rims, only 4 airbags, factory subwoofer, XM, 2 dr, nice rims, good looks, assembled in Oxford England, 4-50 warranty. The mini doesn't have salesmen, it has motoring advisors. I like that, but when I went into the San Diego Mini dealership, 100th in America, I was ignored, then found that the one sales person was offensive. Best maintenance package I think (can't recall the years and miles limits) but they take the oil, clutch, brakes, rotors, wiper blades, spark plugs and o2 sensor. Wow. Too bad it's 33% overpriced by the competition.
Ford Fiesta 17,6 thou and Focus 21 thou, both have 40mpg, only have 4 drs in hatch or sedan, look fine, Sony stereo with XM and Subwoofer, 3-36, stick or auto, rotten 4.9% apr, 5 or 7 airbags. But no stick on the high dollar optioned out model. Was offered a coke by a random salesguy. Wow. Only time that happened in a dozen different manufacturers dealerships. Salesman didn't know the Fiesta or Focus. Not good to have to look up every thing I ask about. Seriously, know the cars you are selling, especially the new models. http://www.ford.com/?EmailID=ford_hxxa_fusf_on&cks=10181782821 for a comparison website from Ford to check out the Fiesta and Focus.
Kia Rio, 17thou, no stick, 40mpg, hub caps... yuck. Ok looks, 6 airbags, XM, optional subwoofer, steering wheel controls for stereo are optional, Ties for best warranty at 10 yr 100k, Made in Korea. Salesperson wasn't interested in telling me about the car, kept asking "Where is this going?" reply, "I'm comparing cars with better than (you know the rest) and the dealerships to see where I'll buy my new car this month, plus I'm posting this on my website" and I was brushed off onto another salesman. Yeah, too busy to try to sell me on a Kia. And Kia owns the dealership.
Toyota Yaris, 16,8 thou, uggg hupcaps, 2 dr stick, 9 airbags, XM with FM HD (only one I found) but no subwoofer, No armrests! WTF? 3-36 warranty, 2 yr 25 thou free maintenance of oil changes and that ordinary stuff. Front and back sunroof, that is new to me... cool too. But, Toyota give college students twice the discount they give military. Another WTF, and a post telling you I hate that http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2011/10/toyotascion-what-fuck-college-grad-gets.html , and boycott Toyota till that changes to equal or better
VW Golf tdi is a diesel, 25thou, 42 mpg, stick, 2dr, 17" rims, 8 airbags, no subwoofer, XM, 3-36 bumper to bumper, 4-50k powertrain, and 3 year 35 month maintenance of oil changes and the normal. Great seats, big hatchback opening, full size spare, no coke machine, Ouch. Glove box gets an AC vent to keep sodas chilled while you drive with AC. Heater does that smae glove box when using the heater. Most unusual, and unique feature.
Nissan Versa, 13,7 stripped without even power windows, 17,2 normal. 38 mpg, 4dr Ouch. No stick, just auto, 6 airbags, XM is optional, no subwoofer, NO ARMRESTS, Ouch. 3-36 warranty, Looks only ok. Salesman was impressively knowledgeable and nice.
Chevy Cruze ECO 20 thou, not in a 2 dr, looks very good, and has the coolest interior. If they made a 2 dr, I'd buy it. They don't. First time in Chevy history that they don't make a 2 dr? I think so. Even the Pontiac Soltice, and Saturn Ion were roadster 2 doors... I call them Chevy anyhow, but they were killed off, and now Chevy doesn't make a 2 dr econo car. If you want a Vette, hell yes you get a 2 dr. For about 60 thou to start.
anyway, 3-36 warranty, great lighweight rims, and other lightweight stuff like body panels of plastic are many of the engineered to get the best gas mileage in the 2012 cars comparison, and it's the best selling new car in the US. XM, no Subwoofer, poor armrests that I don't like, cupholders that you find are under your elbow in front of the drivers armrest barely, very comfortable car. 10 airbags
Anyone have any insight into anything I missed? Let me know. I'll post it here to share with everyone.
In summary, most impressive car was the Fiat, Ford and Chevy are idiots for not selling a 2 dr stick with a factory subwoofer and at least 40mpg,
Mini salesperson pissed me off. No shit.
Buick, Mazda, Chrysler, Dodge, Scion, and MINI don't make a better than 35 mpg car.
There are way too many cars competing for the 2 dr better than 35 mpg for mediocre impressions when a buyer walks in... but that doesn't phase the dozen dealerships I went to here in San Diego. I wonder if anyone rates or compares them with other from the same manufacturer, or the competition.
Though I asked at all dealerships about the cost of a coke, only one took the hint and offered me a free coke. Geez, is a dollar to impress a new customer too much to get them to buy a 20 thousand dollar car? Stupid dealerships.
Kia should try harder to sell cars, they've got a decent package, but their sales people aren't up to the challenge.
Nissan Leaf? 5 thousand dollar dealership markup. On a 35,600 dollar car. So you ain't getting it for less tha 40 thou.
The most impressive dealership ambience and looks? The Mercedes (and Smart Center) at the 163 and Baboa, Marvin Brown Cadillac, MINI of San Diego, Bob Baker Fiat in Carlsbad.. the Fiat place has Italian American salesguys... it may be corny, but I thinks it is cool as hell to have a guy with an Italian accent talk to me about Fiat. I'll say the same about any ethnically related car maker... British selling MG's, Rolls, etc... Japanese selling Hondas, Koreans selling Hyundais, French selling Citreons, you get the point. It's cool to have someone with the cultural fundamentals telling you why cars from their country are superior to the others. I have respect for that.
but that Poway Nissan showroom has the sales manager desk manned front and center. That is very cool. No side office off the side and out of sight and sound from the customers and salespeople, the manager was smack in the center of it all, and walked over to say "What can I help you with?"
a 20,000 dollar car is about 420 a month for 60 months
LoJack costs about 800 bucks
It's not important how many airbags the car has, you are only sitting in the drivers seat, so learn how many are protecting you. No, I don't have passengers 99% of the time. They can take their chances, or buy their own car with 3 airbags around them . Backseat passengers get 2 at most anyway.
Buying a car with a 3 36 warranty, and then having to pay 1500 for a extended warranty doesn't make sense when you can buy a car with a 5 or 6 year warranty. Even better, get the 10 year 100000 mile warranty
Insurance costs
The Hyundai will cost me $480, the Fiat: $522 every six months
Marc commented that the Sonic might be in this comparison... but it's not a 2 door.. and it's ugly. Yeah, I know that the Hyundai Velaster is also an ugly 3 door hatchback.. but it's got a hell of a lot more going for it. Buy the Cruze Eco instead of the ugly Sonic if you want an awesome 42 mpg car, but don't mind 4 doors. The CarGal bought one... and loves the hell out of it.
But you can't get the stick shift in the upscale models. You'd have to pay 1800 for the upscale model with rims, bluetooth, and sunroof. But this model (LX?) has no factory subwoofer, No XM, No rims. Not in the 18,600 dollar model on the dealership lot, and though it's likely the best looking, it's the least well equipped.
Fiat, 18,5 thou, 38mpg, 2drs, 7 airbags,5 speed stick, new to the US after decades not in the US market, 3 models with 2 optional packages... the Gucci http://www.coolpicturegallery.us/2011/08/fiat-500-by-gucci-goes-topless-priced.html and the Arbarth.
The engine isn't resting on the engine mounts... it's under them. If a front end collision happens, the engine goes under the passenger compartment, instead of into it. That is damn good engineering design.
It has a download feature, that you can get info from the car computer, and look at it on your computer... even plan how to reroute for better gas mileage.
two versions of the rims. The ones in back are great.
Fiat has a Studio, not a dealership. They aren't dealing, they are displaying for sale. I like that. Suspension in two packages, sport and normal. I test drove the sport, and you'd have a ball at the track, but not in the daily commute on lousy California freeways.
Tires are Continentals on the Sport model 195 45 16s.. and Firestone Firehawk 185 55 15s
I test drove the ordinary, and it's comfortible.
Side mirrors have a convex - normal split, and the convex is necessary as well as safe, because you can't look over your shoulder to see what is in the lane you're trying to merge into. 3 year, 36 thou free maintenance, and that means clutch and brakes in addition to oil changes. Wow. Best maintenance deal going so far. Fiat even has a ownership club. That is cool.
Assembled in Toluca Mexico, 59% Mexican parts... and they are looking to make a plant in Illinois.
Fiat has been making cars since 1895, and are standing behind the car to a unheard of extant, if it becomes inoperable and you are more than a 100 miles from home, you get a 1000 dollar reimbursement for lodging, meals, adn car rental expenses if the problem is covered by the warranty in the first 4 years (mileage not relevant) they call it "Trip Interruption Coverage"
Fiat was reviewed by Motortrend, here is it http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1101_2012_fiat_500/viewall.html
Hyundai Velaster 18,3 thou, 40mpg, rims nice, tires 215-45 17, 3 dr hatch, no 2 door. Ouch. 6 spd stick, optional subwoofer, great cupholders, armrests, comfortable seats, and deep center storage, cool door handles, 6 airbags, LoJack and a demobilization security system, best warranty at 10 year 100thou and 5 yr 60k bumper to bumper. Best radio display, XM, touchscreen, bass boost makes up for the lack of subwoofer, nice transmission shifting and clutch. Made in Korea
I think the designer had too much to drink the day they worked up the look of the profile. The quarter panels to the back of the front doors... ugly is not too strong a word.
Smart, 16-19k. 40mpg, only 70 horsepower, hate the transmission shifting... even the cool paddle shifter couldn't change my mind about the shift... feels like someone hits the brakes lightly every time it shifts. EVERYTIME! You do the head and upper body bob. Not fun. Ouch. Optional subwoofer and XM, but you doens't sound right with the factory setting of front to rear balance. It's too much front. You can't adjust that, Ouch. 8 airbags, 4 yr 50 thou warranty, no stick shift, just horrible automated 5 spd. Yuck. Nice rims, 2 dr that ought to have been a 2 seater. No way the back seats are useful, and I don't want a 4 seater. No kids, no passengers, just get me to work and back comfortably is all I want. Part of the Mercedes Benz network/dealership, it has the nicest studio, and the most incredible drive it in for service you'll ever experience. Stunning. Too bad I hate the transmission.
Love the tires being this close to the corners of the car, you'll never scrape going into or out of the parking lots off the streets... that is very annoying that there is so much overhang in so many cars. Not the smart... I bet curbs or offroad would be a snap too.
Mini coupe, 31 thou, only gets 35 mpg, stick, rims, only 4 airbags, factory subwoofer, XM, 2 dr, nice rims, good looks, assembled in Oxford England, 4-50 warranty. The mini doesn't have salesmen, it has motoring advisors. I like that, but when I went into the San Diego Mini dealership, 100th in America, I was ignored, then found that the one sales person was offensive. Best maintenance package I think (can't recall the years and miles limits) but they take the oil, clutch, brakes, rotors, wiper blades, spark plugs and o2 sensor. Wow. Too bad it's 33% overpriced by the competition.
Ford Fiesta 17,6 thou and Focus 21 thou, both have 40mpg, only have 4 drs in hatch or sedan, look fine, Sony stereo with XM and Subwoofer, 3-36, stick or auto, rotten 4.9% apr, 5 or 7 airbags. But no stick on the high dollar optioned out model. Was offered a coke by a random salesguy. Wow. Only time that happened in a dozen different manufacturers dealerships. Salesman didn't know the Fiesta or Focus. Not good to have to look up every thing I ask about. Seriously, know the cars you are selling, especially the new models. http://www.ford.com/?EmailID=ford_hxxa_fusf_on&cks=10181782821 for a comparison website from Ford to check out the Fiesta and Focus.
Kia Rio, 17thou, no stick, 40mpg, hub caps... yuck. Ok looks, 6 airbags, XM, optional subwoofer, steering wheel controls for stereo are optional, Ties for best warranty at 10 yr 100k, Made in Korea. Salesperson wasn't interested in telling me about the car, kept asking "Where is this going?" reply, "I'm comparing cars with better than (you know the rest) and the dealerships to see where I'll buy my new car this month, plus I'm posting this on my website" and I was brushed off onto another salesman. Yeah, too busy to try to sell me on a Kia. And Kia owns the dealership.
Toyota Yaris, 16,8 thou, uggg hupcaps, 2 dr stick, 9 airbags, XM with FM HD (only one I found) but no subwoofer, No armrests! WTF? 3-36 warranty, 2 yr 25 thou free maintenance of oil changes and that ordinary stuff. Front and back sunroof, that is new to me... cool too. But, Toyota give college students twice the discount they give military. Another WTF, and a post telling you I hate that http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2011/10/toyotascion-what-fuck-college-grad-gets.html , and boycott Toyota till that changes to equal or better
VW Golf tdi is a diesel, 25thou, 42 mpg, stick, 2dr, 17" rims, 8 airbags, no subwoofer, XM, 3-36 bumper to bumper, 4-50k powertrain, and 3 year 35 month maintenance of oil changes and the normal. Great seats, big hatchback opening, full size spare, no coke machine, Ouch. Glove box gets an AC vent to keep sodas chilled while you drive with AC. Heater does that smae glove box when using the heater. Most unusual, and unique feature.
Nissan Versa, 13,7 stripped without even power windows, 17,2 normal. 38 mpg, 4dr Ouch. No stick, just auto, 6 airbags, XM is optional, no subwoofer, NO ARMRESTS, Ouch. 3-36 warranty, Looks only ok. Salesman was impressively knowledgeable and nice.
Chevy Cruze ECO 20 thou, not in a 2 dr, looks very good, and has the coolest interior. If they made a 2 dr, I'd buy it. They don't. First time in Chevy history that they don't make a 2 dr? I think so. Even the Pontiac Soltice, and Saturn Ion were roadster 2 doors... I call them Chevy anyhow, but they were killed off, and now Chevy doesn't make a 2 dr econo car. If you want a Vette, hell yes you get a 2 dr. For about 60 thou to start.
anyway, 3-36 warranty, great lighweight rims, and other lightweight stuff like body panels of plastic are many of the engineered to get the best gas mileage in the 2012 cars comparison, and it's the best selling new car in the US. XM, no Subwoofer, poor armrests that I don't like, cupholders that you find are under your elbow in front of the drivers armrest barely, very comfortable car. 10 airbags
Anyone have any insight into anything I missed? Let me know. I'll post it here to share with everyone.
In summary, most impressive car was the Fiat, Ford and Chevy are idiots for not selling a 2 dr stick with a factory subwoofer and at least 40mpg,
Mini salesperson pissed me off. No shit.
Buick, Mazda, Chrysler, Dodge, Scion, and MINI don't make a better than 35 mpg car.
There are way too many cars competing for the 2 dr better than 35 mpg for mediocre impressions when a buyer walks in... but that doesn't phase the dozen dealerships I went to here in San Diego. I wonder if anyone rates or compares them with other from the same manufacturer, or the competition.
Though I asked at all dealerships about the cost of a coke, only one took the hint and offered me a free coke. Geez, is a dollar to impress a new customer too much to get them to buy a 20 thousand dollar car? Stupid dealerships.
Kia should try harder to sell cars, they've got a decent package, but their sales people aren't up to the challenge.
Nissan Leaf? 5 thousand dollar dealership markup. On a 35,600 dollar car. So you ain't getting it for less tha 40 thou.
The most impressive dealership ambience and looks? The Mercedes (and Smart Center) at the 163 and Baboa, Marvin Brown Cadillac, MINI of San Diego, Bob Baker Fiat in Carlsbad.. the Fiat place has Italian American salesguys... it may be corny, but I thinks it is cool as hell to have a guy with an Italian accent talk to me about Fiat. I'll say the same about any ethnically related car maker... British selling MG's, Rolls, etc... Japanese selling Hondas, Koreans selling Hyundais, French selling Citreons, you get the point. It's cool to have someone with the cultural fundamentals telling you why cars from their country are superior to the others. I have respect for that.
but that Poway Nissan showroom has the sales manager desk manned front and center. That is very cool. No side office off the side and out of sight and sound from the customers and salespeople, the manager was smack in the center of it all, and walked over to say "What can I help you with?"
a 20,000 dollar car is about 420 a month for 60 months
LoJack costs about 800 bucks
It's not important how many airbags the car has, you are only sitting in the drivers seat, so learn how many are protecting you. No, I don't have passengers 99% of the time. They can take their chances, or buy their own car with 3 airbags around them . Backseat passengers get 2 at most anyway.
Buying a car with a 3 36 warranty, and then having to pay 1500 for a extended warranty doesn't make sense when you can buy a car with a 5 or 6 year warranty. Even better, get the 10 year 100000 mile warranty
Insurance costs
The Hyundai will cost me $480, the Fiat: $522 every six months
Marc commented that the Sonic might be in this comparison... but it's not a 2 door.. and it's ugly. Yeah, I know that the Hyundai Velaster is also an ugly 3 door hatchback.. but it's got a hell of a lot more going for it. Buy the Cruze Eco instead of the ugly Sonic if you want an awesome 42 mpg car, but don't mind 4 doors. The CarGal bought one... and loves the hell out of it.
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